I am just going to put a scripture up and a little parable and then I want you to talk to me about what you read. Look forward in hearing you comments. Here it goes:
Isaiah 1:11 – 20 (The Message)
“Why this frenzy of sacrifices?”
God’s asking.
“Don’t you think I’ve had my fill of burnt sacrifices, rams and plump grain-fed calves?
Don’t you think I’ve had my fill of blood from bulls, lambs, and goats?
When you come before me, whoever gave you the idea of acting like this, Runing here and there, doing this and that – all this sheer commotion in the place provided for worship?
Quit your worship charades. I can’t stand your trivial religious games: Monthly conferences, weekly Sabbaths, special meetings – meetings, meetings, meetings – I can’t stand one more!
Meetings for this, meetings for that. I hate them! You’ve worn me out! I’m sick of your religion, religion, religion, while you go right on sinning.
When you put on your next prayer – performance, I’ll be lookng the other way. No matter how long or loud or often you pray, I’ll not be listening.
And do you know why? Because you been tearing people to pieces, and your hands are bloody.
Go home and wash up. Clean up your act.
Sweep your lives clean of your evildoings so I don’t have to look at them any longer. Say no to wrong. Learn to do good.
Work for justice. Help the down-and-out. Stand up for the homeless. Go to bat for the defenseless.
“Come. Sit down. Let’s argue this out.”
This is God’s Message:
“If your sins are blood red, they’ll be snow-white.
If they’re red like crimson, they’ll be like wool.
If you’ll willingly obey, you’ll feast like kings.
But if you’re stubborn, you’ll die like dogs.”
That’s right. God says so.
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Parable
There is a young lady who always went to church at 12:30 p.m., but church started every Sunday at 11:00 a.m.
So one day the Pastor had to ask her why she was always late to service and her response was…”Pastor that’s the time when something is being said”
TALK TO ME
I AM PRETTY SURE PEOPLE KNOW AND HAVE FELT LATELY THE “ROUTINE CURSE” IS WHAT I CALL IT. AND NOT JUST A T CHURCH BUT EVERYWHERE. WE HAVE TRADITIONS AND DAILY ROUTINES WHICH IS FIND BUT IF THERE IS NO CHANGE ITS EXHAUSTING AND FRUSTRUATING. AND I MEAN CHANGE IN INDIVIDUAL. TODAY’S WORD IS GALATIONS 6:2 BUT I READ MORE. WELL IT SEEMS LIKE IF WE WOULD JUST CONCERN OURSELVES WITH OUR ISSUES BY SUBMITTING AND STOP BEING SO CONCERNED THAT IF WE DO THIS AND THAT EVERYTHING WILL “LOOK” LIKE CHANGE HAS COME INTO OUR LIVES. WE ALL WILL REAP WHAT WE SOW SO INSTEAD CONCENTENRATING SO MUCH ON TRADITIONS AND SACRIFICES THAT DON’T MEAN ANYTHING TO US WHEN WE GIVE THEM—LET’S CONCENTRATE ON DOING HIS WILL. DO GOOD ONTO YOUR BROTHERS’ AND SISTERS’ SITUATIONS AND BE ON YOUR WAY. DON’T BECOME ANOTHER PROBLEM THEY ALREADY HAVE. WE ARE NOT GOD. I NEED TO KNOW GOD IS THE OWNER OF MY FINANCES, MY LUST, MY LYING, MY LIFE, MY BROTHER’S DRUG PROBLEM OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE. WHEN I HAND IT OVER TO HIM I NO LONGER OWN IT!! WHEN I LET HIM HANDLE EVERY THING HE’LL LET ME KNOW WHAT MY SACRAFICE SHOULD BE, WHAT MEETING SHOULD BE HELD. AND I AM JUST THE MANAGER I MAKE SURE WHATEVER HE TELLS MEIS UP TO DO FOR THE DAY MONTH WEEK YEAR HOUR WHATEVER MAN I CARRY HIS WILL OUT. WE GET SO CAUGHT UP IN THESE ROUTINES MAN AND WE FORGET THAT WHATEVER AND WHEREVER HE TELLS US TO MOVE WE NEED TO MOVE. LORD I NEED YOU TO DIRECT MY STEPS SHOULD BE IN OUR MOUTHS EVERY DAY. WE JUST NEED TO LEARN HOW TO FOLLOW REGARDLESS OF ‘EMOTIONS’ STUFF IS GETTING OLD NOT GOD. ITS TIME TO BE CRAZY RADICAL WHATEVER WORD U WANT TO USE FOR GOD. WE ARE THE EXCEPTION-CHRISTIANS, BELIVERS. WHEN WE REALIZE LIKE SERIOUSLY UNDERSTAND HE IS THE ONLY REASON WE ARE ALIVE AND HE IS OUR PARENT, THATS WHEN WE WILL SEE HOW ROUTINE CAN MEAN THAT MY ROUTINE IS WHATEVER GOD TELLS ME TO DO TODAY. WE ALL KNOW WE SHOULD PRAY, TALK TO HIM READ HIS WORD BE GOOD, BUT ISN;T THERE MORE TO GOD? YES YES YES YES THERE IS? WHEN WILL WE FIND OUT? PLEASE CORRECT ANYTHING I SAID OUT OF ORDER D BECAUSE THIS IS THE WORLD WIDE WEB AND I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON GOD BUT I WANT CHRIST TO BE REPRESENTED RIGHT.
The parable was a blessing.. I do, however think that some people are waiting for something to happen, when that something “starts with them”. God, the gentleman will not force himself, and for many of us, we do not come with expectation. I guess to me, both parties in your scenario have to do a self reflection. The church has dropped the ball by trying to throw programs at a problem that programs can not fix! I think we need to look back at the scripture about “failing not to assemble” and get a better understanding on what that meant… What are your thoughts?
I found your posting because I googled “tired of Church”. Your use of Isaiah 1:17 is perfect for what I am feeling. I’m tired of the commotion. I’m tired of the gossip. I’m tired of having my attendance taken and the pious, self-rightous brothers and sisters. I’m tired of being beaten up by the pastor. Why do they beat up the ones that are showing up? I’m tired of the infighting behind closed doors. Frankly, after 20 years of being an active Christian, I believe that there is only a hairs breadth difference between Christians and the world, with of course some notable exceptions. It’s almost like the thought of “if you hang around a garage long enough, you’ll become a car.” It’s a silly way of reasoning. Just because I attend more (or less) regularly than the next guy, doesn’t make me any better or worse of a Christian does it? Not if a shred of grace is involved. Somehow the modern Church seems to have forgotten its’ roots. We are supposed to be there because of grace – not works. The works come after the grace has been accepted. Grace can only be accepted after a full and complete understanding of how sin has colored every aspect of our lives. A good example of that was given to me by a friend. He asked “what do you have when you have submerged and baptised a sinner? The answer: a wet sinner.
That’s my comment. Thank you – I feel better now.
-Mark
I should be resting but tears have become my food.
I somehow came across this website, not sure what it is, but I have read your comments. I find myself in some kind of the same place. I’m sitting here, wanting to meet with a body of believers today for encouragement, fellowship, refocus on God…but I’ve been searching church websites, and find nothing i want. Everyone is trying to come up with the “new” way of enticing christians to come to church- “oh, don’t wear those ties and dresses”, or, “come as you are-we don’t have any racism, etc.”-or church at night or on saturday!”. Nothing is wrong with any of that, but yet to me it seems all wrong! Why are we trying to “entice” people to come to the church! Is that really what the church is about! Isn’t the church really for the believers!!! For the believers to come together and be encouraged so that they can live in the world today and we are supposed to-for God-representing God in our everyday lives!~ Why are we using the devils methods of enticement-why would we stoop to his level when we have so much else going for us! We don’t have to do the enticing-the Holy Spirit does it himself! We’re just supposed to be obedient! We’re just supposed to come together to worship and seek his face-and if we we’re really doing that-would we be noticing the person next to us who is visiting and focusing so much attention on that! I believe that if we were doing what we really were called to do-seek his face!-then we wouldn’t have to do anything-b/c the holy spirit would draw men to himself-and it would not be of our doing, or our fancy programs, or our new age way of thinking. Please post your comments! thanks….
I have found this website recently…today in fact. I was reading up on the spirit of python. I kept going forward through all of the posts and the last post was almost a year ago. Why have you stopped making posts?
Jenn234,
The church is in a pretty terrible state right now. It is all about inreach instead of outreach. The church was for fellowship, worship, and equipping of the saints, but today it is about security, comfort, and selfishness. It is about what we can get from God rather than just serving the Lord because He is worthy. Also, it doesn’t help that Christianity is divided into 38,000+ denominations that all claim to know the truth (of course most of the are not asking God to give them the truth). I think it is time we get back to what the Lord has called us to do and be united. That is it. Unity.
http://sites.google.com/site/cfarevival
Good thoughts here. I concur. As a Christian of 50 years, churchman, worship leader, musician, full and part time staff, I’ve pretty much had it with the organized church. I don’t really believe this is what God had in mind. Not that all is bad, of course, but the emPHAsis continues to be on the wrong sylLAble.
Building up the program base so that people will come. This is central to western Christianity. Just tired of it all.
Dennis
By far the sweetest fellowship is with those who are paying the price of following Christ with acts of love and service that bear fruit. With those who worship in spirit and in truth. How easy it is to get caught in the web of fruitless and loveless work!
THere are so many distractions from the one true calling to love God and to love eachother!
i agree church has become about man and his needs not about the Lord. i to found your thoughts because i entered tired of church. its 5 am its quite and i find that i wish i could just talk about Jesus with someone. this is just a idea and i could be wrong but maybe the Lord is the one who is causing our discontent with religion because He is doing heart work in us so we will be ready for His work. remember many are called but few are chossen.
They wonder why Christian churches are in the declined. I have been an active member for years and got wiped out with he hipocrisy, hunger for power, and game playing of the leaders.
The spiritual wounds they inflicted with their behavior sent me to places I never dreamed I would go to searching for the truth; luckily I didn’t go too far and realized on my own about the love of Christ, however I have not been able to go back to church in a long time and feel isolated and separated spiritualy from the mainstream Christian.
Truthful words, some true words dude. Thanks for makin my day.
There is much going on in the kingdom of God, as you well know. I feel God has called me to share the grace message with those I come across. The freeing power of God’s grace is more than “Good News! It’s REALLY GOOD NEWS!” I am driven to proclaim the works of Christ over the Evil One and to set captives free.
Philippians 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
I will be very glad to try and answer any questions you ask. I pray that the Holy Spirit will be our teacher and the director of our steps.
Question: “What would you say is the direction that the current ‘Corporate’ church is headed?”
Point number one. I think we need to first define terms so we both understand what we are saying to each other. I understand the “Corporate Church” as the Body of Christ. As you would probably agree, many that attend church services are not all born again Christians. So, if the corporate church is the Body of Christ then, I believe there is much work to be done.
In 1994, God led me out of the “religious clamor”. I have learned to listen to one voice, not many. I have also learned not to consult “flesh and blood” when I have heard a clear Word from the Lord. (Gal 1.6) To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood”. Without sounding too hard on the corporate church, I believe they are in a lot of difficulty for the following reasons.
1. Ephesians 4:11-16 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12 to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. 14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
The above passage has one of two meanings.
1. Needless to say, the Church is still not in unity after 2000 years. Nor has it become mature. If you agree with this assessment, and if you believe Jesus is coming back for a unified church, then you must also agree that Jesus is not coming back for a long time. Christ is coming for a glorious church that is of the Five Wise Virgins. He is not coming back for the 5 foolish. (Matt 25)
B) Paul it telling us that we can come into this unity anytime we want, individually. In the second chapter of first Corinthians, Paul was instructing the church. I refer to Paul’s statement where he says; …You are all acting like mere men. (1 Corinthians 3:3) You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men?
I have seen the church that professes to love their God and have fought one another for decades. This must not be. How can we stop it? We can’t. There is an answer however.
I see something very wrong with this type of fellowship. When is it going to stop? When are the individuals going to forgive and give each other the same grace God has given them? There is no unity here.
Therefore, I now read the following scripture differently than when I was first saved. (2 Corinthians 6:17) “Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.”
To me, this used to mean, come out from among the “sinners”. The drunkards, the prostitutes the smokers etc, etc. Now, I see it as anyone who will not walking as Jesus commanded us to walk. (John 15:17) This is my command: Love each other. Does the corporate church think Jesus was kidding? Do they believe he was not serious? Do they not think the Judge is at the door? If you can not do as the Lord commanded, LEARN HOW!
I now believe that you or I or any member of the body of Christ can come into that unity anytime we choose. Which leads me to my second point.
Point number two.
John 11:40 Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?”
In this verse, I see the corporate church not doing as Christ has said. How can they? Ask 100 church members if they hear God speaking to them on a daily basis. For everyone who says, “No.”, then I say,
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
I do not believe John 10:27 is for hearing the voice of salvation only. It is an everyday occurrence. An everyday walk. Look at the following scriptures from the book of Hebrews and see what the Word of God is telling the Church.
* Hebrews 3:7 So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice,
* Hebrews 3:15 As has just been said: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.”
* Hebrews 4:7 Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”
I love the Church. No matter how they live their lives. Judging sin in the church is of no concern to me, it belongs to God. He is the judge. I am as Paul, (1 Corinthians 2:2) For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. If we preach the Gospel correctly, it will judge the church just fine. I don’t have too be busy about correcting my fellowship.
When I was back in the mess of religion, I was preaching everything but “Jesus Christ and him crucified”. No more! The power for Christ is in that message, the cross. And when we look intently into the message of the cross we will find the message of gospel of grace.
My third point. Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
I now call your attention to the “faith” of the corporate church. I believe the faith movement of the early 70’s was an authentic movement of God. They called it, “The Charismatic Movement”. The “Gifts of God”. Well, where has the faith movement persuade the church to go? From out of this movement of God, they have made “Faith Churches” another denomination. How sad. The same fighting, quarreling and the same power struggles exist with the faith church as with others. It appears little has changed.
Aside from this, I see the corporate church walking by anything but faith. And what did you just read in Hebrews 11:6? It is impossible to please God without it. Furthermore, if you cannot hear his sweet voice, how can you walk in faith? Does not faith come by hearing the Word…? I see a really weak church just setting there looking to the law to change the world.
They say to the lost, “Come quickly! We have found the Way, the Truth the Life! His name is Jesus!” Then they place the Savior high atop a rock and heard to say, “He’s up there. Climb up and get your healing!”
Forgive me if I sound somewhat cynical. You see, I have been following our Lord since 1971. I have seen much in that time, the good and the bad. I am as guilty as the next well-meaning Christian is. I have believed both ways, much to my chagrin. I feel that since 1994, God has opened the Gospel in a way I never considered. But like Abraham, I had to leave the religious cities of the plains and get away from myself. Moses went to the desert; Paul went there as well, as did Jesus, our Lord. The corporate church refuses to go to their desert.
They just didn’t get it. Law Vs Grace
Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
My fourth and final point. Now here is one of my favorite subjects, Law and Grace. Again, ask the same 100 church members, “Why did God give the Law?”. I will dare say that not more than 5% will quote Romans 5:20. By far, most corporate churches teach Grace and Law, not the gospel of grace. Jesus was full of Grace and Truth. The Bible says to teach law and grace is 100% unacceptable. Did you get that? 100% unacceptable.
I am not and will not judge a man’s life. Nor will I judge the Church but because you asked to know more, I feel free in telling you so. How will God judge us if we abuse the grace of God and not lean with all we have on His wonder grace? To abuse grace is not to use it. To say we must add anything to the Grace of God is to say God has done nothing or at best not enough. On the contrary, He has done it ALL!
My friend, it is Grace plus nothing. I have much to say on this subject. If we do not understand grace, then we will not understand the Bible. The two most misunderstood subjects in the church today are Law and Grace.
A friend of mine and I were talking the other day. He mentions his desire was to bring the churches together. He even felt the grace message would do it. I felt differently. I said that the churches would never come together. History tells us that the Body of Christ, the Church triumphant, has always moved through out history with persecution. The life always leaves the carcass.
I went on to say, that God would call out his church. Those who are in the Baptist, Catholic, Assemblies of God, Methodist those who are walking and hearing by faith, the Word of the Lord, will hear his voice and will come out as we get closer to the end of this age.
Denomination or no, God has his people and they walk by faith in the grace of God. Whom the Son has set free is free indeed!
Resting in Christ,
Bob Coker
bob.coker@gmail.com
I don’t know where to begin but I am tired of titles, position-seeking, haste and desire for microphone instead of reaching the spirit of others. I am tired of structure. I want revival . the move of God . I think ,breathe outside the four walls. church is good but a personal self-examination is important. It is important to search deeply into the scriptures like the antioch chrisitians. It ain’t about the money or the bishop/arch bishop, it ain’t about the beautiful voice/nice clothes . Its about Christ and sacrifice for mankind.
blessing
precioussitter@yahoo.com
Yeah I feel this way? Everyone has their own agenda of how church should be run but the bible tells us how it should be run yet I haven’t found that anywhere? The bible says for us to come together, some give prophecy, some read scripture, some sing a psalm or give some encouraging witness.
Instead we have a system which is controlled, one stands at the front and preaches and the rest just listen, sing some songs and go home. Where is the spirit moving in that. Also I have noticed that churches don’t want to ever preach what we have been saved from? Just says I came into the world to save the world so that it doesn’t perish but we never preach that if you reject Christ that you are thrown into the lake of Fire. It has, always got to be loving and kind words that we “pick and choose” from the bible but we never seem to hear the truth any more.
How can people be convicted of sin if they are not told of the consequence of sin? Once they know the consequence then we can teach salvation from God. JESUS CHRIST. But know…we are told not to “upset” anyone! Churches are more interested in numbers than they are in discipleship and holy living…
How many times have you been told that “we are all at different stages of a journey so be graceful”. Or, get this…”If you should be driving to London but find yourself driving to Leeds then turn around”—What the pastor was trying to say was Repent from your sins and turn to Christ else you will be thrown into the lake of fire…However he thought that was too harsh so he used mans method instead!?
What is missing from ALL of todays churchs is the word of God taught with passion and discipleship. Instead a preacher will stand up read 10 verses and then tell you what he thinks those verse are saying. Sometimes its truthful but many times it is just them twisting the word to force their own agenda.
When did you last meet at church on a Sunday when everyone is there and just pray and give thanks to the Lord (Psalm 50). Why do preachers feel that we have to hear their voice when we attend church. What happened to just worshipping the LORD.
I am so sick and tired of come in, sit down and listen, stand up and sing, sit down and listen, stand up and sing…have a cup of tea…pat each other on the back and go home!? This kind of church is luke warm and Jesus told us about this church.
I’ve gone to church for years but in the last 7, I’ve gotten rather burnt out from too many church duties 3 times. I could never get totally out of them and always got more things to do thrown at me.
At the end I hated church because it was nothing but a big job I got stuck doing that I had to do every week… had to be at church early, run the sound system or screen stuff… stay late after church making CD’s of the service. Didn’t have time to talk to anyone and sometimes got stuck taking care of adult sundayschool and making CD’s. I’d get there at about 8:50 am and not get home till about 1pm.
Getting a job in another state was a God-send to get me out of that trap. I visited a church and loved it while working temporary and could say that I was only going to be there a few months so it was nice to just attend and enjoy church and I loved it.
Now that my job went permenent and I moved permenently, I went a few times to a church close to where I moved but out of fear of being sucked into that mess again, I can’t seem to get myself to go now. I read my bible and pray every day and am hashing it out with God about this every time I pray.
I love God but hate what church has become which is a big production and I don’t want any part of that. Not any more.
So many are tired of the denominational church system, but have nowhere to fellowship with other believers. I have written a book that is about to be published and would like some feedback if possible. It is about all the problems of the denominational church and why people are blinded to the truth of Christ. If you are interested, please contact me at r.bollinger@hotmail.com I believe people who are searching for the truth of Jesus will be very interested in this book. Rob
There is no shortage of people who are dissapointed in our current system as evidenced in this discussion. Why don’t we exchange e-mails, get in touch and start doing something about it rather than just complaining. Not only am I sick of the system I am sick of not doing anything about it. My e-mail crv_inc@yahoo.com